Ten years back when we ask You the questions about 5 elements You said that sooner or later we start talking about it – now we discussing and its beyond our imagination.
Guruji: this is grassroots level wisdom of India: wherever any dispute in villages – they call 5 elders, they are called “panch” – and that five members are actually decides. They believe that 5 elders, they are equal – they are like gods, Parameshwar. I think it is a hidden message here; they are always five – five elements, they are Parameshwar. The leader of them is called “sarpanch” – “sar” means “head”, and who is in the head is here. Panchayat is a committee of 5 elders who actually gives the word.
Q: why it is so?
Guruji: only because of 5 elements – the number 5 is very important…
Then they go down to the 5 elements, which combination forms the body; and when they go and actually recognize earth element – the fourth-petal sounds with the sound “lam” and they hear them together – I mean not one by one; then they go even deeper and within to understand the individuality of these 5 different sounds – these vibrations makes the earth element. And they begin to recognize element after element after element. Every vibration has a different sound, which is part of the nada in general- so these petals or so-called petals, different sounds and seed mantras, which we’re see written – actually, they are sounds, part of the nada, and that is vibration. So first you need to understand the vibration of every element, which is there; and they are giving you the specific direction, that if you’re able to recognize this vibrations and sounds – then you will be very friendly with this particular element – which is part of you already. That’s how all these things came into be.
Q: how the geometry originated from those?
Guruji: because if the sound is there and vibration is there – it has individual particular shape also. Every vibration will have an exact shape. Individualized personality – personal shape. It may be round shape, or triangular or square one – it will depend on vibratory system.
Q: they are notes of the vibration?
Guruji: yes, exactly. When somebody are trying to explain the very finer notes and the sounds – they may have to write them down somehow, they may have rough sketch of it. Then other sketch, which is more prominent, and original thought went to that ground. That is fine – but indications are there.
Q: You’re keep telling to your westerner students – study hindi, study alphabet
Guruji: yes, because alphabet is connected with that particular vibration, and every vibration carries the particular sound. I think it has been experimented: if you create vibration – they take particular shapes. Physics approves that also.
Q: that is unbelievable: as I started to learn hindi – they make you to pronounce all that nasal sounds – like vam, yam
Guruji: it hits your mind in a different way
HIERARCHY of GODS
Q: from where this hierarchy came – they talk that Ashwatthaman will become Vyasa etc?
Guruji: we came across Vishnu purana; there is a chapter in Vishnu purana – even it supposed to be vaishnav purana but they are giving the list of previous Vyasas who was in previous manavantaras and Ashwatthaman is going to be the next Vyasa; king Bali of Patala will become Indra and the names of new seven rishis are also given. That means that every time they are not permanent people. They keep changing – but we don’t know, what is the time frame for them to change.
Q: and who is appointing them to this career?
Guruji: this is not mentioned anywhere.
Q: Vishnu purana doesn’t give the specific timing for that?
Guruji: no; they say in future Ashwatthaman will be Vyasa; and Ashwatthaman is very important because he’s going one of the 7 rishis also. 7 rishis are: Ashwatthaman, Kripacharya, Parashurama, Krishna Dwaypayana Vyasa, Markandeya, Galava and Vishwamitra.
Q: what kind of impact as a personality – if immortals can be called so – can he affect as a Vyasa, rewriting the history of a human kind…?
Guruji: not only human kind – all kind. First time I’m noticing since Rama have incarnation the living being has descended in a level of human beings. It was never before – they always worship immortal gods, who were in heaven: they just give us rains and we worshipped for that – but now, since Rama, the divinity descended to the human beings. Krishna was born as a human, he was divine; and after Krishna so many yogis and saints have achieved divinity. There is a long list of them. So they must be having the extraordinary support, and I’m sure – that is from Shiva and king Bali. Bali is mentioned – because he is daitya: and the structure of democracy is described in Shukra Vidya, Shukracharya is supposed to be the Guru of all asuras, daityas and danavas. Usually they are supposed like villains against the gods – but they were talking about democracy then! Now the whole world are living in democracy and it will take some more time for refinement and establish democracy – because the effect of monarchy is still on us.
Q: so the first introduction of democracy happened in Vedic times?
Guruji: maybe yes. And Shukracharya was the giver of this. Now king Bali is the king of heaven – and whatever he will decide will come down to Earth. If democracy is there – it means king Bali has already started his work. Originally it is from there.
Q: You also mentioned that they really do not depend on the worship any longer?
Guruji: yes, it’s very simple reasoning for me. As we see – only heavenly gods were surviving on yagyas and different things, but what about daityas and danavas who are living in Patala? No worship has been done to them, and they manage to survive – that means they are self- sufficient, they don’t need any slave to do something for them. That makes them very good and very powerful. Another thing come to my mind: one time creator Brahma hold the meeting for all the realms – 7 patals, 7 heavens… king Bali also went to heaven to attend that meeting. When he entered – the power of his truthfulness and goodness was so overwhelming so all the gods were afraid and they run away from him. that make me think – the gods are afraid of goodness and righteousness; so why they are called gods?
Q: at the same time You said that they don’t care about human society – but they change the course of the human’s history?
Guruji: they are not actually caring for us. They are only care to make their life out of us: we are like live stock to them. Always performing yagyas and praying to them to repulse the small favors; king Bali isn’t making us slaves, he is self-sufficient.
Q: what is the relationships now between devatas and humans?
Guruji: now no vedic god is being worshipped, different gods are taking over. Rama and Krishna in human incarnations of divinity – they are being worshipped, Shiva, Hanuman and Shakti are worshipped. Actually it is like paying respect to them – they are not exactly surviving on our worshipping.
Q: so the grace of gods can still be on human individual?
Guruji: it’s even more nowadays.
Q: to whom they would listen, who will be in favor?
Guruji: he must be good as a person and do some things to develop himself or herself; because if you’re developing yourself – you’re the part of the society, so indirectly society is also getting developed. And a good person will have the effect on others – like a bad person will have the effect also.
Q: so nothing changes in old times?
Guruji: no, many things: you’re not depending on gods now. So much.
Q: why people bother to ask them additional benefits – if you’re not depending now?
Guruji: I think nowadays nobody asking much.
Q: what is the connection then?
Guruji: we’re becoming self-sufficient; the presence of god is required to tell us – there is more life that we experience here. After death life continues. And after death there are no business, no making money, no bank account. Simply by developing your mind you’re preparing for that reality.
Q: that is the most important lesson
Q: but so far society worshipping bank accounts more?
Guruji: now, I will say so far, we were just slaves, subjects. Now first time we’re enjoying freedom. Who were starving for centuries – now they have something to eat. Let them enjoy for some time. These things will settle down and they will think more on deeper things in life. Back to subjects: suddenly now they are ruling in democratic way – it will take some time for them to learn how to establish the system, how to follow it. Let’s give them some more time.
Q: I think what we’re discussing are not actually religion or devotion – it’s all about higher powers?
Q: to overcome all the old types of relationships and worship, which were existed in families, like all ancestors worship – it must be changed?
Guruji: I think it’s already done. What I’ve noticed in my surroundings – younger generation now are asking very deep and intelligent questions. They are even questioning the ancient traditions. And if you don’t know about it – how can you answer? First you need find the answer yourself, then only you can give the answer to some young men. Previously even to ask the question took a lot of courage – because you will be scolded and criticized, how you’re idiotic to ask such questions. I’m always open for discussions.
Q: speaking about yesterday conversation: kal yuga – the yuga of Time?
Guruji: why before second world war nobody was talking about Time? Nobody discussed Time before. My understanding is: from 1944 Kali yuga ended and maybe the Kaal yuga begin. First time Time was discussed by scientists. You can say that Time unites everything whatever is happened. Now all the branches of science begin to talk about Time – from physics even to genetics.
Q: conclusion is: this is time to learn about Time?
Guruji: first time scientists mentioning Time – the words from Gita are coming to everyone.
GOAL of YOGA
Q: what is the goal of yoga, Guruji?
Guruji: the goal of yoga is to establish your identity in its totality. So far when we say “I am” – it’s 2% of our consciousness. Goal of yoga is self-realization: that means in this world of illusion you will make yourself real – that will be realization of your personality, yourself – that is the goal of yoga.
Q: what is the goal of any life, human life?
Guruji: mostly I see – the goal of any life is just to live a life, just be there. Everybody wants comfortable life, comfort everybody loves. Only few ambitious people ponder on these things: what when I’m saying “I am” – it’s just a small minuscule part of my personality. They try to found the different way how to develop and what to do, start to focus on the brain; then the brain awaken and so many things happen. In Kriya yoga first is brahma granthi bhed – opening of the mind. After you begin to understand it – then you also begin to understand that who is supporting the brain. Then your attention go to the heart; then after you begin to understand the mysteries of the heart – then you think how heart was created. Then you go to the navel – from navel everything was created. After you understand this – then you begin to be aware of the importance of the earth element. So the journey begins.
Q: immortality is not the goal of yoga – but it’s one of the components?
Guruji: it may be achieved. Physical immortality may be achieved. Kundalini is sleeping in the earth element: it means the real power remains in the earth element. Once you realize it – your earthly body may become immortal or live as long as the earth herself.
Q: this journey is for selected few – some can go further and leave the physical body…?
Guruji: they may hope to enter the nirvana; but I would love to travel with the Mother. If she take us to market – we will hold her finger and go.
Q: recently in the movie I’ve heard that Earth is like gigantic garden where the dead bodies are the seeds – we constantly planting the dead bodies so we actually give more seeds to the living?
Guruji: probably – earth to earth, dust to dust.
Q: are we fueling the system with our mind, with our life?
Guruji: no, it’s too big thing for us – to fuel the system. We’re not impacting it. Have you read, that sex is maya?
Q: yes, I’m agreed- illusion continue.
Guruji: it will continue.
Q: but it tricks us to this endless cycle to have continuity – so it’s not our fault?
Guruji: that is the reality-show: you need to understand this and get over it.
GOAL of YOGA
Q: is really the goal of death is life?
Guruji: yes. Even in Gita Krishna say this. Who are taking birth – he will die: that also means whoever will die – will take another birth. Two sides of a coin.
Q: so the endless cycle for those who becoming aware will stop one day if you consciously make the choice to understand this?
Guruji: you may not hope to stop it – you may make it more interesting. Because if you will reach to that level – your creativity will become immense and you will find so many things to entertain yourself by keep coming back again and again.
Q: but can you be an objective observer of the cycle?
Guruji: why not? All depends on our brain development and depth of our understanding.
Q: you will accept all transformations and ageing process of your own body as unavoidable path – you’re just observing?
Guruji: we have heard this statement: I never die – I just change bodies. That will come to that. Only one thing I observe and keep discussing: there is only main reason for don’t want to take another birth again: you will have to go to school one more time. This nobody likes.
Q: I remember when we discuss we were saying that we have not give the agreement to birth – but you say no?
Guruji: you’ve already signed the contract.
Q: does it mean that by choosing the body – you have no choice?
Guruji: we want to be in the deciding situation, to have a choice. To choose the birth is the really big achievement. Who wants to go to the school one more time? Not me.
Q: my school was very nice – and I would love to go again
Guruji: you need psychiatric treatment
Q: choosing the birth is the condition for reaching the source of the first birth?
Guruji: it is just the level of development that you’ll have to achieve.
Q: to make the choice of the birth is easier than reach the source?
Guruji: to reach the source is much more deeper.
Q: but it’s necessary?
Guruji: no. that’s the point – nothing is necessary
Q: human birth is not guaranteed?
Guruji: not always, yes. I can give an example: look at the Jataka’s story of Buddha – they describe 200 different births; he was born as a monkey, as a lion – all these things. No problem.
Q: seems like a big problem – spending a lot of time being a monkey
Guruji: read the story of incarnations of Vishnu
Q: so nothing is guaranteed?
Guruji: that’s up to you – how you make your story, how you develop; how much you can make it entertaining.
Q: as they say in the criminal justice: no body – no case
Q: can we say that no body – no karma?
Guruji: you have to establish the motive when the time will come.
Q: the motive for the birth is always there?
Guruji: it always be there.
Q: is this the motive just to continue to exist?
Guruji: every birth is necessary for you to believe that you continue to exist. Physical body may be providing this big feeling that – yes, I’m existing.
Q: most of the rebirth are urge of atma to get into envelope?
Guruji: I think so, yes. And remember, they say in Gita – the body is like clothes. I don’t think you will love to go naked – until unless you’re on the certain level. Meat suit. Recently I remember a very good dialogue from Mr. Amitabh Bachchan: any fool will know about the truth – but only wise understands the difference between lie and the truth. I agree with this.
Q: when we talked about the spirits – you say they need the place to call it home?
Guruji: yes. And also they need to find some identity for itself. The formless things – they may be having the identity crisis. That also make the earth element extremely important.
Q: what kind of spirits are going up not taking another birth?
Guruji: only those, who has taking the essence of the power of the earth element and other four elements. They have enough think to establish their own identity and power – so they can create a home themselves and be happy.
Q: in non-material existence?
Guruji: yes, Alakh Niranjan. Don’t you think the word “matter” looks like “mother”? matter is the mother of all creation.