…So it is dehi, who studies while reading it – for entertainment, for wisdom, for knowledge; and then he leaves.

Q: So again and again different books are read, aren’t they?

Guruji: Well, even science would agree that all individuals are unique. Take your fingerprints for example – they will never be repeated.

Q: But experienced algorithms are pretty much the same, right?

Guruji: No, and there is very little time for that observation. Every experience can be extremely deep. It depends on the observer – how deep he’s able to understand. So don’t be superficial, go deeper. Like when you keep spinning in the wheel of karma – you’d never think of going beyond 2%, because you’re limited so much by your personality, your destiny, and your karmic results… so you will never develop 100% – or let’s say to the limit, unlimited limit.

Q: The point is – it’s not amused, no matter what’s up with you, is it?

Guruji: That’s the point: the content is more important than the cover of the book! All these things are just the cover of a book. This 2% is providing a cover; and dehi is relaxing inside without any disturbance reading, and just reading – then one day leaving. So this karma, this destiny is just there to limit you within 2% of your consciousness: go beyond that! This is the name of the game. Read H.C. Anderson’s “The Ugly Duckling” – you will realize the true identity, not the superficial one, which is given to you by society, so-called family and situation. Read that story: it will give you the answer.

Q: Development of the consciousness: does it not consist of different goals, is it just one?

Guruji: They’re stepping stones…

Q: So are goals like the steps of a ladder?

Guruji: A stepping stone is never the goal; the goal is to climb the steps and reach some height. In the name of the development of the mind.

Q: … and never ignore the development of the brain?

Guruji: Without developing the brain no development of the mind or understanding is going to be performed. We are so habitual in using this word – «mind», and we keep ignoring the brain. This is our problem.

Q: Today I was recalling your words: exercise the brain, develop the brain. And people keep asking the same questions: «The brain is basically a fat tissue in a jar of liquid, so how to exercise this substance?»

Guruji: Come to Shailendra Sharma, receive initiation in Kriya yoga.

Q: «It’s not a muscle, which can be physically developed.»

Guruji: That means – their idea of development is limited by only physical muscles. Development goes much beyond the physical muscles.

Q: But people ask whether it’s an intellectual development.

Guruji: I’m talking about the development of the brain! The more the brain will be developed – the better intellectuality, mind, and consciousness will express themselves.

Q: Can you give a simple instruction on how to develop the brain? To feed it by prana?

Guruji: Prana is one of the things; also all the mudras described in Hatha Yoga Pradipika – their aim is to awaken Kundalini, that means to awaken the consciousness. They are one and the same. I have noticed the head size increasing in more than 200 of my disciples – that tells us the development of the brain is really taking place. Usually the head is not increasing in size after a certain age.

Q: His name will remain «Ivan» – but he will know that…?

Guruji: He will say: «Yes, I’m also known by the name «Ivan» – by society.» He will also realize his true name – which is impossible to pronounce; the name of the spirit.

Q: So will it be like the full version of the same individual’s self-identification?

Guruji: Of course.

Q: Will he merge with the spirit?

Guruji: No, he will remain individual – but a long-time friendship will develop. We’re very good at giving labels and names; a tree never comes forward to say «I’m a tree» – we just give it a name. A dog never says «I’m a dog» – we just put a label on the dog. So the true identity will be realized.


Q: What is the consciousness of the mortals – what is their self-identity, how do they feel? What is the self-identity of the immortals?

Guruji: Either they identify themselves with their job or their family line – or their country, or community, or the religion which they are following.

Q: And what about immortals?

Guruji: I have no idea. They have realized their true self, their true identity. And they will always remain separate. A very simple example: when you extract ghee – it will never again be mixed with the milk, it will always remain separate.

Q: Alchemy, alchemical process as a necessary part of achieving immortality – does it have to become a part of yoga practice at a certain time? Will this time come before or after the skill of samadhi? How do alchemical skills help a practitioner?

Guruji: When consciousness is developing – then very different diversified wisdom will come to you, and alchemy is a part of it. It will come when you’re ready to receive it. Whatever I’ve read in Ayurveda, in some very ancient books, for dealing with mercury and sulfur, khechari mudra is given as the most important thing. That means – yoga is the basic way to advance to the level of alchemy successfully. Do you remember my misadventure with Rambabu? He was standing with khechari; it was a big blast – and all the grass behind us burned, but the fire didn’t touch us. Actually, it was pretty shocking for us. There are more mysteries: when you realize your nature – then the nature of nature remains. Alchemy is just a part of it, one of the parts.

Q: From the most practical point of view: is it advisable to start learning and practicing alchemy?

Guruji: There are no schools – all of them are misleading.

Q: But you have started at a certain point, haven’t you?

Guruji: That sadhu in Puri was the first exposure. Let us see what will happen.


After my first darshan with Babaji this interest came to me so we did experiments on indrajal – and were successful in some. It was pretty spectacular to a layman, it could make an impression that the one performing it is a great siddha and a miracle worker – and I was also glutting over it for some time. Then – thanks to Babaji – a very strong thought entered my mind: are these seekers coming to you to learn yoga, or are you taking them just as customers and impressing them with all that supernatural display so they become kind of your slaves and continue to serve you while providing you with enough money and respect? What is the motive behind all these shows? And it was a very serious shock for my mind – so I thought I had to stop it immediately.

Then we stopped the experiments; because it’s easy to impress the masses, and they will take you and worship you as an avatar simply by displays of such kind. But inside you will know that you’re nobody, you’re just deceiving them in the name of god, in the name of yoga; and where here are honesty and asteya – which are initially niyamas in Yoga Sutras? So it was a pretty shocking realization for me, and I stopped after that. Since then I’ve been waiting for sincere seekers.

And I found out: the biggest miracle in this world is to find a really honest nice person. This is a magical moment when you see such a man.

Q: I’ve never asked you about any other types of miracles – when you come to save someone’s life or when you come to help somebody – there are numerous cases.

Guruji: It started after the first darshan of Babaji, after I had left home, when I was living alone – and the second chapter of samadhi started. It was sort of a reflection of those samadhis.

Q: The ability to help somebody?

Guruji: It happens automatically. And most of the time I was either asleep or sitting quietly.

Q: Were you – or were you not aware about it?

Guruji: I became aware of it, yes. It started naturally by the grace of Babaji: before meeting him nothing had been happening. As long as I continued to live with my family – nothing was happening. When I had left it and started living alone – then it started. If you’re sitting alone in some deep thoughts, nobody’s even talking – and one just walks in front of you – it is enough to disturb your concentration and focus.

Q: Did many life and death situations happen?

Guruji: Yes, many had happened after that.

Q: Can you recall any of them – whatever is coming up in your mind?

Guruji: I will tell you the first which comes, that is brought to my mind – Michael recorded that also – about the maternal uncle of Pankaj.

They were attending the marriage somewhere in the village, and his wife, other ladies and children were going on the tractor trolley to take the bus – it was somewhere in the fields. There was a sort of climb and turns – and it was 30-40 ft on one side.

Something happened and the tractor sort of became neutral – and it began to roll back. If it had fallen – it would fall 40 ft in that big pit. Pankaj’s maternal auntie just remembered me and shouted: «Jay Guru Maharaj!» – and something came over her. She jumped from the tractor and with a single hand stopped it. With another hand she just turned the trolley – so it couldn’t move, it was turned sideways. She was shaking; people came down from the trolley safely – and then she sort of fainted. She said that Guruji came and entered inside her body and just stopped the tractor with one hand. This was the first thing I heard.

I just remember like in a dream that something was happening, and I got up very tired that morning. Then they came the next day. Then – many things happened like that. Meeting with Babaji, his darshan affected me in many strange ways – not only the technical aspect of Kriya yoga. Most of the time I became aware.

Q: In that case with your disciple in Bali – did you become aware that he needs help?

Guruji: Yes – so many people are in astral now, I am becoming aware of so many things.

Q: Did it also come suddenly?

Guruji: Yes; it concerns only my disciples – it doesn’t mean everybody. But I became aware – who comes to darbar, becomes aware of me and prays – sometimes things happen with them also.

Q: Do you think it was a big mistake of Superman – trying to save the entire humanity instead of paying closer attention to his friends?

Guruji: It could be, yes. But he’s an alien – he’s not human, so he doesn’t understand the nature of humanity. It is our nature to destroy ourselves. Quotation from “Terminator”, not me.


In many Indian mythological puranas it is written that jiva of a thumb size lives in the heart. And he [my Guru] shared that whenever he was closing his eyes – it appeared, almost all the time. A human figure of a thumb size. Jiva is human. Golden shape appeared whenever he closed his eyes.

Q: Did his first experience happen after his father’s death and after he turned 50?

Guruji: Yes.

Q: How many times did he experience it?

Guruji: If he was closing his eyes and jiva was appearing instantly – that means his mental state was very different and very high. It is as good as samadhi. Maybe it is the result of samadhi. He died at the age of 82 – so let’s say for 32 years he had been experiencing it. This description of jiva – I’ve never read it anywhere before.

Q: Was it in kutastha or just in front of his eyes?

Guruji: With closed eyes it appeared.

Q: But did he feel it in the heart?

Guruji: He didn’t elaborate on that. He said: whenever I close my eyes – it appears.

Q: When he was telling you all these exciting stories about yogis, who were discovered in samadhi, demonstrating that; did he himself speak about the techniques of coming out of this state?

Guruji: We discovered that there is a herb, which is taking one to a cataleptic – or whatever – state like a coma. That’s why the other person’s help is needed. Without it – no antidote will be taken.


Q: About other abilities of Babaji, which we can only guess at: we spoke about bringing the base elements of the body to the equilibrium, to the equal proportions.

Guruji: Yes, this is the beginning of immortality.

Q: Does this particular process have any specific name?

Guruji: No, it is the result of a very heavy yoga practice.

Q: Is it mentioned in any of the yogic scriptures?

Guruji: Nowhere, that is my own conclusion.

Q: That ability, which brings the body to the point where atomic disintegration on the cellular level is possible – am I guessing right: a person becomes invisible, becomes larger, or becomes smaller – is it basically operated like that?

Guruji: I think when you’ve realized that the whole world is actually an optic illusion, and your mind has become so powerful that you’re able to create some illusions on your own, it is just like that. Think – and it is done.

Q: In your collection there are cases when you disappeared, when you demonstrated to people you were not there; and when asked – you said it had been just an optical illusion based on tremendous concentration.

Guruji: You see, about becoming invisible: the word in Sanskrit is «antar dhyan» – it means «when your Dhyana has gone inside».

I understood: when you’re able to stop your mental waves for a particular time – people will stop registering your presence there, they will not see you. That was the thing I did – and it actually worked on them.

Q: … except for that case when they looked at you and only your smile was seen – like Cheshire cat?

Guruji: I smiled because I was looking at him – and he saw my teeth, hanging in the air. That was different (laughing).

Q: Was it intentional?

Guruji: No, it just happened.

Q: So it had nothing to do with the balancing of the elements, right?

Guruji: No, nothing.

Q: What are the qualities that the immortal Guru like Babaji might possess?

Guruji: I’m sure he can travel through time. When he realizes his time – I think the past, present and future become the same for him. Wherever he will focus on – he can appear there.

Q: Isn’t it a power of mental concentration?

Guruji: Yes, and a realization of time. He can also create palaces – any illusion he wants to. Remember, Yogananda also wrote: he carries the earthen pot – out of it you can take any food and eat.

Q: Amazing; although I doubt he eats himself… Does he enjoy the taste?

Guruji: Maybe the party is on – yes.

Q: Didn’t he come to you not carrying any earthen pot?

Guruji: No, he was empty-handed.

Q: Just with the yantra?

Guruji: No – the man was carrying it, he himself was empty-handed. I’m sure he can travel through Time. That’s why he cannot be found here – because he might be living thousands of years before or a thousand years in future. You cannot find him there. He can arrange any time frame – whichever he wants to be in.

Q: Is anyone with these particular qualities mentioned in Nath’s texts or in Nath tradition?

Guruji: Which qualities?

Q: The qualities, possessed by Babaji.

Guruji: Yes, Gorakhnath and Matsyendranath both and all 9 immortal Naths; they are created with these powers. Flying also; Babaji may be able to fly as well. If he can teleport himself – if he wants, he can fly physically as well. And he may have achieved the electrical body.

Q: For those not very familiar with biology: what is happening with the muscular tissues when the entire body becomes electricity?

Guruji: They transform – like coal transforms into a diamond. But even this is a gross example. The whole body is working on electrical impulses – and it is only 2% of the brain that is producing them. 100% of the brain will produce much greater powerful currents – you wouldn’t need muscles then. You will be a pure consciousness.

Q: But still one has to create an illusion – like he’s walking among the mortals.

Guruji: For entertainment only. What is the use of being beautiful if there is nobody to appreciate it? Still we’re just guessing – we don’t know for sure. We are reading more comics – so we have more imagination.

Q: Still there’s an entertainment for immortals – choosing to give Kriya yoga or not to give it, or to wait for a couple of centuries…

Guruji: Maybe giving Kriya yoga is not the entertainment – it must be something serious. But still the exact motive is to be found – why he [Babaji] started it; I’m still thinking on it. Even though – I like to boast: he initiated Lahiri Mahasaya – so that Kriya yoga could reach Shailendra Sharma one day.

Q: Will the Shailendra dynasty continue to practice?

Guruji: Hopefully (smiling); this is a new element – Shailendra dynasty. They have been practicing Kriya yoga as well. We’ve discussed that also: Uddhav is a Kriya yogi; he lives in this area – and he simply pulled me here.

Q: Did he call you here?

Guruji: Maybe. He also looks like a youth of 16.


Q: So are there many cases of secret identities?

Guruji: Yes. Alara Kalam – as they write in buddhism, he was a very accomplished yogi, and Buddha spent a few years with him.

Q: But then he moved on, though he was offered to stay…

Guruji: This is what they say; but maybe he was asked to move on – to practice in a jungle alone? I would say – Buddha was practicing Kriya yoga. In ancient buddhism khechari is mentioned, sitting in padmasana is mentioned, and sitting in a cellar is mentioned; and Buddha looked like his body had been developed by a serious practice of yoga.

Q: Can we make an assumption that buddhism is just another branch of Kriya yoga?

Guruji: Which went in a different direction. Allama is mentioned in the list of siddhas in Hatha Yoga Pradipika; Alara Kalama, Allama – it sounds very similar phonetically to me. Buddha is sitting in padmasana – and padmasana is known by everybody from yoga, it’s not a buddhist invention.

Q: And the realization of the emptiness, and a middle way…

Guruji: It is yoga, yes. Maybe a nerve – yes.

Q: But he never explored the consciousness of the emptiness, he never went further, did he?

Guruji: He just said «emptiness» or «shunya» – and that was that. Consciousness was never mentioned; even Hatha Yoga Pradipika – it is not mentioned there. Shunya – they are going to shunya; consciousness is missing.

Q: Do they deny the existence of the consciousness of the higher levels?

Guruji: They don’t deny. They keep the question open.

Q: So there is mind and there is a higher consciousness, isn’t it?

Guruji: Of course, they differentiate that.

Q: Many sculptures of Buddha are also depicting kundals – not of the same type, but…

Guruji: There was one cult in Thailand or somewhere; they used to pierce the ears and make the holes bigger and bigger – so it looked like kundals.

Q: Buddha always holds his hands like that…

Guruji: Is it left hand over the right hand? It’s the most comfortable position when your left leg is first. Many people sit like this – but the left first is the most comfortable position.

Maybe it was the sister of Babaji who provided this catalytic result. Sujata may have been Babaji’s sister – who came to enlighten him and gave him enough nourishment for the brain; so he started suffering from enlightenment eventually.

Q: But those descriptions of how he looked and what he underwent – when he became enlightened…

Guruji: Whenever he talked – the golden aura was shimmering around him, this is on record, Milendasotta. It is described how he was walking, how he was talking; he had a great sense of humor also – it is also described there.

If I remember correctly – some of his monks were discussing something in the inner room; then he came out and asked – what are you discussing? They said: «We are discussing who was the originator of the Creation.» And he told them a story: one being just appeared from nowhere, saying «I’m the oldest thing, and this and that…» Then one buddha went to him and asked: «Who is the first one to appear?» And he sighed and told him: «I don’t know.» It was a great joke of that time.

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