What do you think was the main trigger point in the fact you left a house?

Guruji: When the first Samadhi happened – I was not expecting it. My mental state was absolutely different then and it clicked: every time you sit in practice, in the back of your head you’re always expecting that it may happen again. That means: you will never be in that same mental state the first time it came. Somehow, when that mental state began to appear again – it started. But it took two years of depression after my first meeting with Babaji. It took almost 5 years for me to calm down and relax; and the grace of my Guru worked as well.
 But mentally the absence of this expectation was the condition?

Guruji: It is one of the – mental state conditions, which I have beside them – yes. You’re never in the same mental state again. That’s the main technical reach.

Q: It’s probably one of the most difficult thing – not to expect?

Guruji: It will take time. Suddenly you cannot switch on and off your mind – it will take a few years at least for you to calm down. I’ve come across some people: they had some supernatural experience: instead of coming down they’re just waiting – why it is not repeating? – so much into it; and it never repeated again. Now it’s ok. It always takes time – to come down. This is another extraordinary thing: because some of the people – 4-5 people described their experience in Samadhi; but no one discussed how the second started and third started. I don’t remember reading about it anywhere. 5 years gap is too big of a gap. I think – when I look back – if Babaji had not graced me by his coming, I don’t think it would’ve repeated itself again. That was very good fortune for me.
 You think even if You keep trying and keep practicing – without his visit, without this magic touch…?

Guruji: No, I don’t think I would be stuck there.

Q: So what exactly was shifted by his visit?

Guruji: So many things, which he added: I think he was aware that I’ve experienced it. Otherwise he would never have come – I’m sure about it. Three years after!

Q: The quality of the practice changed?

Guruji: Yes. Then maybe he took notice and then decided – this boy might need some guidance now; and he gave it to me. The first thing was – which I felt – the great confidence, exhilaration, happiness suddenly. We keep reading about him, we keep talking about him and at the back of our head we believe that he’s there; but when you’re face to face with him – very different type of confidence will come, which otherwise will never come. and exhilaration: I think this is the only word. And great solace – that he’s looking after you, he’s looking at you. Now it is 26 years – and I’ve no words from him: when he will be coming or he may not come. no idea.

Q: You said once – it would be good to talk to somebody senior?

Guruji: Yes, I feel like this.


I was at my Guru’s place in 1986 on Shivaratri, in Benares. I was taking it easy – going to the temple, but he insisted: you’re in Benares on Shivaratri day – go for darshan of Vishwanath Ji! I went there reluctantly, bought some flowers and datura. I was standing in the queue from maybe 10 o’clock continuously; when my number came at about after 4 o’clock in the afternoon. I had already been harassed so much; you can touch Vishwanath Ji! There was one queue of ladies, one of men; I was just bending down to touch Vishwanath Ji  and some ladies came; an old lady pushed me and I fell on top of Vishwanath Ji. Inside it is sort of a basin – and I was stuck there. Those priests – they lifted me out and I was so furious, looking at that old lady. I kept quiet; everything was done and I came back to my Guru’s home. In a very angry way I was telling him how this happen and that old lady pushed me; and he laughed. I saw him laughing like this for the first time. He said: Oh, Vishwanath Ji accepted you as an offering. It was the real darshan. I was offered to Him like a flower or datura: he was here, hit me in the chest. Looking from another point of view – it was the push of Adi Shakti, which created the situation by Guru’s order. That’s how it happened. And life changed very much after that.


Q: how did people start to ask for initiation? The first people, who talked to You?

Guruji: It’s a very interesting incident; I had a friend – Shivanath Vyas and his younger brother – Upendra Vyas, that 107 kilo (235 lbs) man, whom I lifted with one hand. Their father was also practicing meditation, he was something. I was just visiting the market – we were living away from the city in those days, where I experienced my first Samadhi.

I was waiting for some vehicle to take me to that side – and Upendra Vyas came on his motorcycle. He said – hi, Sir! I’m also going there; just give me 5 minutes: I’ll visit my home and I’ll drop you off. Ok, I sat on his bicycle and he brought me home which was hardly 5 minutes away. There his father was waiting. He had a vision about 15 days that at this day, this time a young man will come and he will become your Guru. So he was waiting at this time – and I arrived. He simply got up and touched my feet: make me Your disciple!
 You were surprised?

Guruji: Beyond my wildest imagination: your friend’s father gets up and touches your feet, asking you if you make him your disciple; “You have to accept me as Your disciple!” that way it started.

Q: and his son?

Guruji: Shivanath, my friend, didn’t become a disciple – but he became very respectful after that. His younger brother, Upendra Vyas – he became my disciple. Shastri Ji was their friend – so he became my disciple. And the word spread then. They were very famous people in the villages also – the land owners said that if Vyas Ji made him his Guru – then there must be something! That made my reputation in that area. Many people began to come. The first disciple became my disciple before this incident.

Q: How?

Guruji: He was visiting the neighboring house of one of my cousins in Gwalior, so I was there talking – and he also used to visit me; I’ve become the Guru and he just asked me: please, make me Your disciple. Somehow – he did not know Kriya yoga, nothing; but he was good. It was an interesting and entertaining time.

Q: Did he achieve khechari – Your first disciple?

Guruji: No, but Vyas Ji achieved it.

Q: How did his life change after that? If it changed?

Guruji: He was very sick at that time: he recovered within 2 months, absolutely. And with recovery became very devotional. He was that bold person from the story: he thought, that I’m making gold.

Q: He wanted You to share?

Guruji: To learn!

 Is it possible that Ravana was going through the ritual of diving to the cauldron to reach immortality?

Guruji: He may have done it, I’ve read it somewhere. He himself mentioned this ritual – and he was the great specialist in Ayurveda. Maybe someone else was also doing that.

Q: but the body, attained by that is not the yogic body, the electrical one?

Guruji: They’re saying it’s Siddha kaya – and it maybe anything.

Q: Do we need the 100% activated mind to perceive Nada?

Guruji: yes. Hopefully (smiling)

Q: How then we can produce it?

Guruji: because they know exactly, what is Nada. It’s no need to produce it, it’s already there.

Q: I’m asking because in Gorakhbodh it is said that sadhaka is repeating Nada – how is it possible?

Guruji: He’s merging with Nada, going deeper and deeper. Remembering is like repeating.

Q: It’s not about the increasing and developing the sound – it’s about increasing the possibility to perceive the sound?

Guruji: Yes, to increase your own capacity. Individual capacity.

Q: How can the sadhaka come back to muladhara from vishuddha after perceiving the vowels?

Guruji: This is the descend of five different elements and different vibrations. What is in your body is also outside of you. They are like connecting points. I’m talking from the technical point.
 How it is possible?

Guruji: Vishuddha – akash; then anahata – vayu, then fire, water and earth: this is the descent of five elements. Then only you will understand and you will go beyond five elements. When you’re descending – the recognition of every element develops. When you’re coming from your home here – you’re not examining every city on the way, but you’re aware of them. They say if the ghost from the cremation area follows you, throw so many mustard seeds: until or unless he counts all of them – he cannot go. So he spends years and years, counting. Don’t be like this: stopping in every city and examining every pebble – go on!
So we have a little understanding about the elements, when we’re coming down – but we know them, coming up?

Guruji: We have little understanding – we’re just a little bit aware, that they are there.

Q: So will we become aware of the different vibrations of the petals, coming down?

Guruji: You will become aware. Every petal’s awareness will come after years: when you’ll be able to do samyama.

Q: What is the difference then – when we’re going down and we’re going up?

Guruji: You’re going down for understanding everything and you’re going up to be free of everything, Alakh Niranjan. We’re collecting everything going down – then all together are going up.

 What is actually happening when we untye the hridaya knot?

Guruji: By untying the knot you’re developing your own consciousness. More awareness with more consciousness – and you begin to understand.

Q: It’s connected with our going down to muladhar?

Guruji: You already came down when you were taking birth: you just need to understand the path, how you came down. We’re already down (laughing).
Q: Going down to nabhi after hridaya: what happens then?

Guruji: When you understand your nabhi – the knowledge will begin, how creation happens. And you’re also understanding that nabhi is in a different place and chakra is in a different place. Even though it’s a path of descend of the five elements – the genetic foreword is standing in the distance. When you finally reach Rudra granthi – then the ascend will begin. The take off.
You’re understanding the basic structure of Nada and how it came to be condensed.
 It requires the numerous experiences of Samadhi?

Guruji: oh, many! Understanding develops much later.

Q: Only when we understand the all types of Nada you can reach paravani state?

Guruji: When you realize the source of the Nada – only then you can go beyond it. Paravani is also the state that human ears cannot hear – it comes from the spirit: that is inside you. It is already there: what we are doing – we’re just trying to understand it. Understanding is the name of the game.

Q: When we discussed Kundalini – You said that you just trigger the point and then it goes its own way, we don’t need to force it?

Guruji: For this – somehow you need to descend to the point where it is sleeping, then – stir it up, then it wake up

Q: that is the point: so we must take our concentration, attention, and prana from one point to another?

Guruji: No, you already know the path. Those who are trying to go that way – they never reach anywhere.

Q: Does it stop between two elements? For example we knew the fire element – then before knowing the water element it may need some time or no?

Guruji: What is the water element? Just cold fire. Fire is the essence of every element. You just need to go deeper in that.
So could it be that you know the air element – but don’t still know the fire element?

Guruji: Impossible. No air – no fire.

Q: In the story, where Gorakhnath liberates Matsyendranath from the prison…

Guruji: not the prison! He asked him enter the land of the ladies. And who are ladies? Siddhis are ladies. and Hanuman Ji is guiding them and guarding them. Only he can allow someone to enter the kingdom of Siddhis. Only Matsyendranath has visited them.

Q: Here they were talking about smashan?

Guruji: You need to read it very carefully. Sushumna and smashan are one in the same, read Hatha Yoga Pradipika.
 Fire in the stomach represents the fire element?

Guruji: Fire is fire. It expresses itself in a different ways. Fire is in your eyes also – read Ayurveda. There are different expressions in the body, but fire is fire.

Q: How can we see – for example, vyana, – in nature?

Guruji: Earth is carrying vyana. It is expressed in whole nature.

Q: How is udana expressed in nature?

Guruji: It is hanging in space – like the power of udana. In the core of every atom there is udana, it’s somehow connected with the fire. Vyana is vayu mandala: because of the vayu mandala we’re able to breathe – vyana is everywhere.

Q: What is apana then in outer space?

Guruji: Uttarayana and dakshinayana – prana and apana.



After very long planning, after some time when you look back – you think: oh, I’ve made a mistake. With planning usually mistakes come. and when you’re just deciding immediately – usually it goes in a right direction.


Q: Basically plans could be changed, but decisions – never?

Guruji: I think you should be man enough to stand by your own decisions. If you cannot trust yourself – then you’re not trustworthy at all.

Q: In ancient times kshatriyas were the example of honor?

Guruji: Most of the kshatriyas were greedy for property and unnecessarily killing each other.

Q: If we remember Mahabharata – maybe only Vyasa behaved like the trustworthy person?

Guruji: You also need to look at the exact situation, how he took birth – it is very peculiar. This is not like any human birth. He was born on a small island on the Yamuna river; immediately after birth he grew up and said to the mother: whenever you need – just remember me; now I’m going to do some tapas. And only he could come back to life from the dead – it has never happened before.

Q: He was like the observer of all Mahabharata and then wrote it down?

Guruji: No, he was the main character in that. He removed Ashwatthama’s curse within a month. Just imagine the power of the person, who could remove Krishna’s curse! And: his name was also Krishna. He’s a real Krishna. Think on that.
 He is the author of Bhagavad Gita???

Guruji: Could be – he wrote the whole Mahabharata(smiling) and we deciphered a lot of his riddles – Vyasakutas.

My salute is to the comic artists – they have brought a smile to millions of children and millions of people. How many people smile, looking at the so-called “progressive art”? They will smile sarcastically. Of course – when such picture sold out and the money comes to the artist – he will smile all the time. That is also great tapas – to create such a reputation of a great artist.

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